So the topic of John Byrne’s mid-’80s reboot of the Superman line came up on Bluesky, where, among other topics, the new villains Byrne introduced was discussed. By and large Byrne took the probably-editorially-mandated approach of retooling some of the old Superman adversaries into something a little more modern-feeling, but between making Mr. Mxyzptlk unpleasant and making Metallo unpleasant, some new creations entered the mix.
…Aaaaand…dropped out of the mix, as for the most part, the new opponents had little to no staying power, or were used only sporadically until mostly just fading away. Like, say, Skyhook, or Dreadnought and Psi-Phon, whatever that one robot mummy thing was called, or even, God help us, Sleez (who apparently appeared about three or so times, which is four more than I expected). Even Bloodsport, who got a little play when a version of the character was used in a Suicide Squad movie, is mostly underutilized.
The one villain Byrne introduced who actually kinda/sorta got over, is Silver Banshee, probably more because of her striking appearance than anything else. Other creators took a liking to her and started developing her presence, and she also made the jump to other media (remember when she was on Smallville? She certainly was!). She was even showing up in the Superman comics relatively recently,
Which is a long way of saying that Byrne seemed to have more luck doing memorable stories with the established characters here than he did creating brand new villains for Superman to fight. But, really, that’s okay…superhero comics are littered with one-shot wonders who show up to fight the hero for an issue, gets sent down the river to do a nickel in the gray bar hotel, and are never heard from again. Byrne cooking up one villain (maaaaaybe two, if you want to count Bloodsport) that manage to make the grade out of however many he attempted isn’t a bad ratio.. I mean, it’s no Lee/Kirby cranking out legendary character after legendary character, but who could ever match those guys.
And that brings me to >Fantastic Four, as I’m sure you were expecting, given the title of this post an’ all. Byrne’s overall goal to his run on the Fantastic Four was that all-too-familiar phrase of “back to basics.” Byrne stripped the title back down to the Stan ‘n’ Jack days, focusing mainly on their creations as adversaries for the early issues, building on their foundation rather than much of what gone on in issues prior to Byrne’s takeover. (One exception was bringing back Terrax the Tamer, a cocreation with Marv Wolfman from Byrne’s previous run on the title, and who had his own measure of staying power).
Which isn’t to say that Byrne didn’t make some attempts at introducing new antagonists to the title. In #237, be brought in Spinerette:
…an interesting-looking lady with the power to induce vertigo-like effects:
…I mean, she got a “super-villain” name, she had an interesting look, but far as I can tell, only appeared this one time. Misunderstandings were resolved, she left the planet with her people, and that was that.
In #239, we get some critters that have been pestering a smal Arizona town:
…only it turns out they’re pals with a young girl that had been helping the FF throughout the issue:
There’s a lot goin’ on in this issue that I’m glossing over, but, even though Reed Richards his own self implies that these beings could appear again, far as I can tell, they never do.
In #266, one of the few issues during Byrne’s tenure that wasn’t mostly drawn by him (Kerry Gammill doing the honors, with Byrne pencilling a couple pages at the beginning and end of the issue, but inking throughout), we got Karisma:
…a villian with mesmerizing powers, shown here putting the whammy on the Thing:
…and she apparently turns up again fighting Captain America at some point, but she’s only had a couple of appearances altogether.
And then there’s the big one (literally). Terminus! I seem to recall Byrne stating somewhere that the intention was to create a Fantastic Four villain that would stand with the other classic FF bad guys, and, well, what we got was a riff on Galactus:
In Amazing Heroes #39, Byrne is quoted as saying
“The whole thrust behind Terminus […] is to introduce a cosmic bad guy who is a cosmic bad guy. Terminus is an extremely powerful menace, but he is not as powerful as Galactus, nor does he have Galactus’s nobility or important role to play in the workings of the universe. […] He’s not beyond good and evil [as Galactus is said to be]. He’s evil and he likes it. I don’t want a character with even a hint of nobility this time. He’s scuzzy. Every time he comes back, he’s going to be nastier. He’s basically out to have a good time, which he defines looting, pillaging, raping, murdering. He’s a kind of cosmic Attila the Hun.”
So, a giant bad guy who destroys planets but, unlike Galactus, is kind of an asshole about it. He’s sort of the answer to “oh, you think Galactus is a ‘bad guy,’ here’s what an actual Bad Guy Galactus would be like.” Terminus even has his own little companion who helps him track down worlds:
…and in contrast to whenever Galactus was defeated and driven away from the Earth, Terminus’s defeat results in him becoming trapped inside the Earth:
Interestingly, in an Amazing Heroes interview some years later, Byrne says
“…I had created Terminus for Marvel, and he was originally created to be a Darkseid-type character, although he evolved into something different.”
Of the FF villains Byrne created, Terminus seems to be the one closest to having the goods, though I believe Byrne only used him the once. He later turned up in an Avengers story by Roger Stern, John Buscema, and Tom Palmer, then was the focus of a crossover among a handful of 1990 annuals. He (or his armor) have made a handful of appearances over the years, making him at the very least a minor villanous player in the Marvel universe, if not the major recurring threat that Byrne had planned.
When I started reading Fantastic Four comics, I think even then I could feel the difference between an established villain and a new creation, why one had staying power and why the other did not. I enjoying reading the Spinnerette story, but I wasn’t left with a feeling of “I can’t wait to see her again,” or “this is the beginning of a long history with this character.” She was a short-term puzzle to be solved for this one story, with no real reason to return to her.
Terminus at least has some apparent depth to him, despite his one note purpose as “cosmic thug.” He’d clearly been around a bit, he had taken a helper from a previous world, his defeat left the promise of a return. This felt like a character with some legs, even if it would be under other creators, at least for a time.
Whereas, for example, Diablo, or the Puppet Master, two villains that turned up very eary in Byrne’s run, felt like guys who were absolutely part of the Marvel universe (because, well, they were) with understandable motivations and histories, and possibilities for further stories. These guys weren’t created as one-offs, they could be plot machines for many stories to come.
Not to say that Byrne’s new villains, aside from Terminus, couldn’t have been. Who knows what those little demon critters from #239 could have evolved into. Or what allegorical purpose Karisma could have served? But they were ultimately minor villains who existed to serve that one story and nobody felt inspired to dig them up again (or at leaset to dig them up too often). Again, that’s fine…not every character can be the Joker or Doctor Doom. And Byrne was hardly the only creator to contibute a new villain to the FF cause that made his or her one stand and was never seen again. Lee and Kirby are hard acts to follow, after all.
If you subtract the Lee and Kirby villains, just how many long lasting characters have been created by any other writers?
Infact there was a bit of a tail off in new bad guys by Lee and Kirby after #70 or so (which is an incredible run of course).
I remember feeling underwhelmed by the new villains Byrne threw at Superman. I could never figure out why they were in his comics, what made them specifically Superman villains.
I think what gives Silver Banshee staying power is that a) she’s a magical character b) who isn’t Mxyzptlk and c) is a woman. She filled a gap (two gaps?) in Superman’s rogue’s gallery, so she stuck around. Still not strongly tied to Superman’s core concepts, but then neither is the Toyman. Better than a robot mummy, though.
If anything, I think the Fantastic Four lend themselves to “villain of the month” more than Superman does. They’re supposed to be adventurers, so discovering new alien species and cosmic conquerors is pretty much right up their alley.
Spinnerette is a great one-off villain because she presents a physical challenge and a puzzle for Reed to solve. She even gets a real-world scientific explanation for her confusion. I feel like she could have been introduced by Ryan North in his science-forward take on the book.
I can really only think of four FF villains who have caught on as recurring villains post-Stan Lee.
Salem’s Seven-They don’t fit well with the FF, but they may have had the most staying power as recurring FF villains created after Stan Lee.
Darkoth the Death Demon-Even he is sort of scraping the bottom of the barrel to find examples.
Terrax-He’s usually associated with Galactus when he does reappear.
Terminus-I don’t think he’s really associated with the FF as a villain anymore, even though he first appeared in that comic.
I like obscure, one-off villains. Thom is right that it does work really well for the FF as a concept. The Twilight Zone-like stories by Byrne were some of my favourites from his run. It’s fun to come across a villain who doesn’t have a reason to return and is never seen again after their first appearance. I always found it kind of disappointing that it seemed even the more forgettable or obscure villains from the early Lee/Kirby/Ditko days at Marvel would get dredged up at some point simply because everything done by those three names during the formative years of Marvel was considered a classic. There’s something to be said for unearthing plots from the earliest days of Marvel that were never touched on again, but then you find that even the Living Eraser, Zemu (from the Fifth Dimension), or Kurrgo (from the Planet X) have made return appearances by later Marvel creators.
the reason so few characters introduced at the end part of the FF’s book is reportedly because Kirby decided to not give Marvel any of his new characters, especially after the infamous New York Herald-American article that he and Roz felt insulted his contributions to the writing & plotting of the books.
For all his talents, I don’t think Byrne’s come up with too many characters that have stuck outside of the X-Men. For X-Men, he co-created Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost, Sebastian Shaw, Donald Pierce, Destiny, Pyro, Rachel Summers, Sabretooth and Arcade (although the last two debuted elsewhere). He also created Alpha Flight, who debuted in X-Men.
Most of his other characters failed to catch on. The X-Men characters benefited from Claremont and his successors continuing to use them long after Byrne left. I wonder if Byrne cared whether or not his characters were used by others (beyond any financial stake he might have), or if he ended up just telling stories he wanted to tell and the villains were created based on the threat they posed without as much attention being paid to character development.
Who do people think was the last “great” supervillain that was created that has shown up a lot and will have staying power?
Gee, kind of a cheat, but the Maker seems like the last villain Marvel considers top tier. Being from the Ultimate Universe and an evil version of an Earth-616 superhero kind of puts an asterisk by his name.
I came up blank after the Maker to the point where I found a website listing Marvel’s hundred greatest supervillains. There were barely any names introduced after the 1980s, and the most recent one I found with staying power is Apocalypse (introduced in 1986). Everyone already knows he’s a major recurring villain.
Marvel has failed at creating compelling, lasting villains for the past thirty years. Whenever there is a major event, they pull out classic villains or turn a former-hero into the villain.
I think the Image Exodus is a major reason for that. Modern creators have heard people like Rob Liefield says that the Marvel corporation stole some of their best characters. Now, with all the indy publishers available as an alternative, I think most creators save their best ideas for their creator-owned projects. They like having fun playing in the sandbox at Marvel, getting to put their stamp on the classic characters they grew up reading, but they aren’t creating a lot of highly-marketable villains or heroes that other creators might want to use due to the fact that they will lose control of those characters if they introduce them in a Marvel comic.
Was Maxima a kinda sorta super-villain in love with Superman? With Spinnerette I’m reminded of Magpie over in Batman.
Might just be me, but I thought the changes to Brainiac were egregious. Editorial edict: modernize the bad guys, yessir.
When it comes to one-offs, even though James Robinson used mostly Quality characters, in one case the 1953 Starman tells Jack Knight about the Red Torpedo said why he was little known was because many heroes just got tired after a few adventures just stopped. The same with villains and the Prairie Witch.
Mike: get on the phone with Dan Didio and tell him we need a Quality period piece like Marvel did with AGENTS FROM ATLAS. You know people.
Chris V: Best answer to that. The Image Exodus. Good points.
Did anyone ever bring back T.J. Vance, the possible Stan Lee analogue adult magazine publisher who tried to publish topless sunbathing photos of She-Hulk?
@ Andrew Davidson
One character who comes to mind is Thundra,created by Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, and John Buscema, who first appeared in FF no. 129. She has made many appearances in many Marvel Comics over the decades.
Omega the Ultimate Assassin, an android villain created by Roy Thomas, Ross Andru, and Joe Sinnott, has popped up from time to time in various Marvel Comics since his debut in FF no. 131.
Darkoth–created by Gerry Conway and Rich Buckler–who made his debut in FF no. 142, was seen a few years ago in various issues of Thor and Venom.
Mahkizmo, the chauvinist/machist Nuclear Man and ruler of Machus in an alternative 23rd century timeline, has popped up from time to time over the last few decades to battle She-Hulk, and Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers). Mahkizmo made his debut in FF no. 151, as the sworn enemy of the Femizon Thundra, and was created by Gerry Conway and Rich Buckler.
Arkon the Magnificent, created by Roy Thomas and John Buscema as a Conan/John Carter of Mars-type character, has battled the FF at various points, although he made his debut in Avengers no. 70. But, just like Thundra, he keeps popping up in various Marvel Comics over the decades. I wonder if Arkon and Mahkizmo have ever battled each other?
Gorr the Golden Gorilla, created by Roy Thomas and George Perez, made his debut in FF no. 171, and later popped up in a Quasar issue, and a Deadpool story.
Texas Twister, created by Thomas and Perez, who made his debut in FF no. 177, has twisted his way through appearances in various Marvel Comics over the decades.
The Eliminator, created by Len Wein and George Perez, made his debut in FF no. 184 as a magitech android. He made a recent reappearance in a Scarlet Witch issue a few years ago.
Nicolas Scratch the Supreme Warlock, the son of Agatha Harkness, was created by Wein and Perez and made his debut in FF no. 185. He has reappeared off and on since then in FF comics, Patsy Walker Hellcat, and Scarlet Witch issues.
Ego-Spawn, an aspect of Franklin Richards that Doug Moench and Bill Sienkiewicz created in FF no. 228, has come back a few times, including in the Fantastic Force series.
Firefrost and the Ebon Seeker, created by Doug Moench and Bill Sienkiewicz, who debuted in FF no. 229, also appeared the Operation S.I.N. series about a decade back.
“ Who do people think was the last “great” supervillain that was created that has shown up a lot and will have staying power?” I think I found the same list. Maybe Carnage is more recent?
A number of post Stan Lee names on that list, Thanos being the one that jumps out. Hobgoblin (an asterik there, of course), Sinister, Apocalypse, Crossbones, Taskmaster, Hood, Bullseye. But boy, top-tier villain created from scratch in the last 30 years? Yikes. Hood might be it.
After Lee and Kirby, looks like Claremont is the winner.
Maybe Claremont is the winner for sheer volume of villains created after Lee and Kirby, but Jim Starlin probably wins for creating Thanos–arguably the most significant Marvel villain, used time and time again, and definitely the most significant villain in the MCU. Starlin also co-created Michael Korvac– with Steve Gerber. He also created the Magus.
Roy Thomas would be up there too, having created or co-created Ultron, Helmut Zemo, Morbius (–all characters considered important enough to feature in the MCU or Sony Spider-Verse), Sauron and the Savage Land Mutates, Squadron Sinister, Tiger Shark, Arkon, Satannish, Nuklo, Orka, Umar, Grandmaster, Master Man, Warrior Woman, Baron Blood, U-Man, etc.
I would think other Marvel Bronze Age scribes would rank fairly high for villains created.
Gerry Conway co-created The Punisher, The Jackal, Hammerhead, Man-Wolf, Tarantula, Cyclone, and Tombstone.
Jim Shooter created or co-created the mercenary Paladin, who will be in the MCU miniseries VisionQuest. Shooter also co-created The Beyonder, Titania, and Graviton.
Len Wein co-created Nicholas Scratch, Salem’s Seven, Copperhead, Constrictor, Jigsaw, Stegron the Dinosaur Man, Human Fly, Darkoth, etc.
Steve Englehart created or co-created The Secret Empire, Shuma-Gorath, Silver Dagger, Master Pandemonium, Solarr, Reptyl, and Stygyro, Nightshade Queen of the Werewolves, and Moonstone (Lloyd Bloch).
Steve Gerber created or co-created Doctor Bong, Foolkiller, Mandrill, Nekra, Angar the Screamer, Ruby Thursday, The Band of the Bland, Korvac, Bessie the Hell-Cow, Death-Stalker, and Elf with a Gun.
Marv Wolfman created or co-created Bullseye, Black Cat, Terrax the Tamer, Blackout, The Sphinx (Anath-Na Mut), Diamondhead,
Bill Mantlo created or co-created Baron Karza (the characterization and backstory for the character based on the Mego Micronauts toy), The Dire Wraiths, Dreamqueen, Rocket Racer, The Collective Man, Hypno-Hustler, Dreadknight, Carrion, Swarm, U-Foes, General Ryker, The Corporation, and Black Raazer.
What’s up with WOOD GOD?
Woodgod was created by Bill Mantlo and Keith Giffen. He made his debut in Marvel Premiere no. 31 and was a bioengineered being created by gene-splicing human and animal DNA, resulting in his Satyr-like appearance. He has superhuman strength, stamina, reflexes, sense of smell, and a regenerative healing factor.
He went on to appear in a few Marvel Team-Up books drawn by John Byrne (53-55); some issues of Incredible Hulk (251-253, 256); a couple of issues of Quasar (14, 20); Marvel Comics Presents no. 76; Marvel Tales (vol. 2) no. 263 –a reprint of A Marvel Team-Up no. 54, but with a cool Sam Kieth cover, Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. (vol. 3) no. 37; Namor the Sub-Mariner no. 44; Alpha Flight (vol.2) no. 13; Hulk (vol. 2) no. 30; and Jim Rugg’s Hulk:Grand Design – Monster no. 1.
Woodgod: The Marvel Comics Return No One Demanded! https://share.google/905XHpI2TKLhjK9G4
Woodgod changed his identity and showed up as Sweet Tooth.
@Chris V
I think an interesting tweak on Woodgod would be to draw him with Wally Wood’s face and give him Wood’s God-given drawing ability!
Also, in those Incredible Hulk issues, Woodgod started bioengineering other gene-spliced beings, collectively called “The Changelings,” who resembled various creatures from Greek mythology.
And one assumes that Woodgod is irresistible to Nymphs.
I honestly only remember a few appearances. Why the heck hasn’t he been in a Marvel film? I kind of thought Woodgod would have shown in Wolverin, but that was when I was pricing back issues in 1993 and my life had little meaning.
Chris V. and Sean. Wally Wood’s face on that effing dwarf that Steve Gerber had wandering around in THE DEFENDERS.
“Was Maxima a kinda sorta super-villain in love with Superman? With Spinnerette I’m reminded of Magpie over in Batman.”
She reminds me of that weird alien that was making movies of the Hulk, I think during Mantlo’s run on Incredible Hulk, or right before it.
“Hobgoblin (an asterik there, of course), Sinister, Apocalypse, Crossbones, Taskmaster, Hood, Bullseye”
LOVE Hobgoblin & Tasky!
I agree that Byrne’s run on the FF was at its best when he focused on the classic villains. That said, issue #241, about a ghost alien in a suit of armor, pretending to be a Roman emperor,may be my favorite single issue of his entire run. Byrne managed to cram the FF, SHIELD, and the Black Panther into a super fun jungle adventure into a one and done story. As far as I know Gaius Tiberius never made another appearance.
I enjoyed The Host, which I assume is the robot mummy in question. I thought the design was pretty cool. Admittedly I haven’t read that story in decades though.
I like robot mummies, alien Roman emperors, AND space Vikings!
To be clear, I have nothing against robot mummies in general, just their use in Superman comics from the ’80s. I suppose The Host was the receptacle for a lost alien race, and maybe Superman fought a mummy in the movie serials? That kind of connects it to the Superman mythos. Sort of? I still would have rather seen a proper Brainiac story, but that’s just my opinion.
I just reread Fantastic Four #241! I remember feeling the story was very adult when I first read it at age 12. There was something melancholy about it. And the team mostly wore civilian clothes, I think. It just felt more like a weird adventure comic than a superhero one. And Byrne’s art was stunning throughout — the height of his heavy inking style that we discussed before.
The more I think about, the more it seems like Wood God and The Changelings should get their own limited series–maybe they could meet The Inhumans, and Wood God and Gorgon could stomp around together.
@ LouReedRichards
Glad to hear that you’ve come to appreciate space Vikings! Were those space Vikings ever heard from again in a Thor or Sif or Loki story?
@ Wayne
So, you want Wally Wood’s face on Elf with a Gun???
I think Wally Wood as Wood God makes more sense–especially as he pioneered the whole epic mythology and elf-fantasy comics genre with his Wizard King graphic novels.
@ Thom
I appreciate your stance on robot mummies! Much like my beef with the space Vikings that appeared in the pre-Byrne FF, it’s all about context and setting. The only thing cooler than root mummies are space mummies, or maybe a space robot mummy!
Yeah, #241 is a bit strange. Like you said, not the same vibe as a standard FF story. Glad you mentioned the inking again, it is quite heavy and does get a bit murky at times. It lends itself better to the jungle environment in this story than the Inhumans sci-fi story in the next issue. Like we discussed, I can see why he’d want to lighten it up a bit.
Byrne’s treatment of Brainiac was… odd to say the least.
@Sean – Ha! Like Thom and robot mummies, I have nothing against the concept of space Vikings, just those particular bozos.
Not sure if they ever showed up again. My guess is with the fondness those space Vikings had for three-wheelers, Team America might be a good place to look. ;P
@LouReedRichards
Marvel should explore the possibilities of a limited series featuring Wood Good and The Changelings, The Inhumans, the space Vikings, and Team America –and throw in some robot mummies …
*Wood God
Even though I read these at the time I don’t recall Spinnerette at all. Which is odd because she bears a striking similarity in looks and powerset to Alan Moore’s Fascination AKA Scatterbrain from the Special Executive, later Gatecrasher’s Technet.
There is one FF villain created by Byrne who has recurred several times that you don’t mention, and that’s Malice. In fact I’d say the current story’s Invincible Woman is basically Malice taken to a logical extreme.
Marionette – yes, I probably should have mentioned Malice in this post, too, but I did discuss her in the previous post in this series!
“He’s a Brainiac, Brainiac on the floor! And he’s dancin’ like he’s never danced before!”